Hi just thought Id give you an update on Global Warming.

The Gov is using out of date figures for calculating our reduction needs ....looks like we're likely to miss the target yet again. Not just that but it would seem the Scandinavians are at it as well !!!......Christ theres no hope!
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/05/01/1058/

Last edited: 2-05-2007 08:12:49 PM

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As much as I am sure we'd personally choose to....perhaps saving the planet isn't the answer afterall.
Love
Trin

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Namaste Trinity,

Hope you are doing well. I might be being dumb, but I don't follow you here. Could you elaborate on what you mean please?

Om Shanti
Neil

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Hi Trinity ...do I detect a certain shift in your thinking on this . Are you now feeling that saving the planet is not to be...and that you feel perhaps our lesson is in the losing of our physical identity in some way.

Scary stuff if so , butI cant help feeling that as this thing seems to becoming more appparent in our lives that this may well be the case .

Collective conscoiusness is always behind events and cosequently even further behind is appropriate action.

I think the difficult thing to grasp is that this is a product of who we are the negative of the positive that is our success.It is our Primary God ( materrialism) that we hold dear to that is undoing us.But how do we become what we are not.

That Native American keeps coming back to me

' Tribe follows tribe, and nation follows nation, like the waves of the sea. It is the order of nature, and regret is useless. Your time of decay may be distant, but it will surely come, for even the White Man whose God walked and talked with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We will see. '

Last edited: 3-05-2007 11:05:24 AM

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Hi

So many of us seem to be focusing on healing the planet by reducing global warming. In my view herein lies a critical misconception of what is actually going on.

As a race we are growing at an exponential rate. Society has programmed in us, specific needs, desires and wants and hence we continue to plunder Mother Earth's natural resources destroying our ecosystems on a massive scale. It seems to me that unless individuals themselves are confronted in a very clear cut way which seriously impacts their non-sustainable lifestyles, there is little or no incentive to change those behaviours.

So in this situation it seems to me the only real way to heal Mother Earth would be to cure our systematic brutalisation of it, not to find more evolved ways of brutalising her more efficiently.

So perhaps the best way to achieve this is for some major global catastrophe to drastically reduce the main cause of this problem in the first place (i.e. mankind).

Then maybe the survivors would have it indelibly imprinted in their memory that whatever sophisticated and future creations they come up with they are of no real value unless they are at one with Mother Earth and her natural eco-systems.

It seems that Mother Earth will heal - when the cause of the assault has been removed. Maybe this is the plan that the soul of the Earth is flowing with? What ultimately remains is whether or not we can still stay true to the divine flow of the universe no matter what happens.

With Love
Trinity

Last edited: 3-05-2007 11:35:41 AM

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Someone put an interesting viewpoint on the subject to me the other day...

"what if we are not meant to survive? What if we like thousands of other species have it in our destiny to be just a small chapter in the Earths lifecycle?"

It shifted the assumption that humanity does deserve to survive, and maybe we are being driven by our ego/natural instict to survive.... howver fruitless. Is it arrogance and/or short-sightedness to assume we will be here forever?

I read somewhere that if the earth lifespan was a 24 hour day.... humanity has been here for 5 mins! And more destruction and pain has been caused in those 5 mins than ever before.

Maybe the Earth as a sentient being (assuming you subscribe to that point of view) needs a serious detox and purge itself?

Last edited: 3-05-2007 12:03:03 PM

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Hi Trinity

You pretty well sum up my own feelings on this . Everything is largely about how do we do this but keep on growing at the same time.

I think your right as well Asif ....why should we think we're exempt.

Another good article out today http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article1603667.ece

Last edited: 3-05-2007 10:28:02 PM

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> We are being fooled over global warming reduction figures

I think the sad truth is that we are being fooled on just about everything in life! But particularly with anything to do with media, education, politics, science and religion. Almost nothing happens for the reasons we're led to believe. Wars are never started for the reasons we're told. Almost everything we've been told about terrorism is BS (9/11 was so obviously an inside job). Western democracy is a complete joke (does anyone still believe that political parties have any real power?!!).

And unfortunately, intelligent people like Monbiot are just perpetuating most of the lies. He boldly states on his website:

"Tell people something they know already and they will thank you for it.
Tell them something new and they will hate you for it."

But it's clear that old George doesn't really want to learn anything new either. He's trapped in the illusion like almost everyone else; although I guess he's serving a useful purpose at the moment.

A pretty good primer for getting you slightly closer to the truth can be found at:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Yates/steven.htm

If you can handle that ok then the best primer that I know of for understanding the bigger picture about life in this dimension can be found in my friends book "Fringe Knowledge for Beginners" You can download his ebook free from http://montalk.net/book

I would love to know what George would make of all that!

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Regarding freewill and destiny, both of these are real and exist together. Freewill is your ability to choose and act on your choices. Destiny is the blueprint that determines the course of your life. Some people wonder how freewill can exist if destiny means your choices are already pre-decided. The answer is that the destiny only decides what you must learn and why, not how you will learn or when. The later is up to you depending on your attitude and how stubborn or perceptive you are to these lessons. The destiny of an acorn is to become an oak tree, but how that tree will actually turn our is not yet decided. Your destiny is to become all that you truly are, but how you get there is up to you."

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Andy Im not really too sure where what you say leaves us.

you make a pretty sweeping generalisation that pretty well everything is not as it seems ...which I can go along with in the sense that appearance and essence are not the the same . However we have to come down to the (apriori) assumptions that are implicit in any philosphical position we hold and where, when we put that out into the universe it travels and impacts others ....we have to hold some responsibility for it .We become part of the ripple in the pool .There is really no position of ' neutral ' action.

On Global Warming we either confront it as a truth or a possible truth and act accordingly, lest we otherwise play Russian Roulette just on the off chance that it was only a conspiracy, .....perhaps as some believe just another bit of propaganda put about by nonhumans for the absolute control of humanity as some sort of cosmic alien control trip .

Somehow I cant help feeling a liitle queazy at the idea of the latter ...and I shudder to think how my son or daughter would react if I offered that up as an excuse for doing nothing .......anyhow we're all about balance are'nt we ??...so why should this be so unbelievable when so many appear to believe and speak of a world so profoundly out of balance.....or maybe we don't.....and maybe it isn't.

Last edited: 7-05-2007 10:10:06 AM

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Hi John,

I don't think that global warming is necessarily a conspiracy, or that we shouldn't try to do anything about it. Although tackling global warming itself is not going to achieve anything.

In my opinion global warming and all other forms of environmental destruction are a symptom and not a cause. And as all holistic healers know, treating the symptoms and not the underlying cause is not the way to truly heal.

The problem, in my opinion, is consciousness, or lack of it! Unless mankind, as a whole, can become conscious of how our thoughts and actions affect every aspect of our world, then basically we're screwed! If global warming doesn't wipe us out then something else surely will.

I personally do believe that a transition is happening and that the consciousness of mankind is shifting, although I have no idea how it's all going to pan out. I just feel strongly that something important and positive is happening. However, things may get much much worse before they get considerably better.

And so I'm personally not going to worry about global warming. What can we do to stop it? Nothing really. All we can really do is work on ourselves, become the best people we possibly can, and then try to influence those that are close to us - in a positive way. We mustn't tell people that they are wrong or that they must change their ways, because that just doesn't work. People don't want to hear that they are wrong. So unfortunately it might need a disaster of biblical proportions to wake everyone up and get them to take notice.

From everything I've heard and read, and from everything I've learnt from experience, I now trust that there's a divine plan to all of this, and that everything will work itself out just fine. That doesn't mean to say that everyone should do nothing. It just means that everyone should find their own true path, do what they feel is right, and not worry about a thing!

Andy

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Hi Andy

As in most discusssions we have the problem of semantics and this is one if ever there was one .

I take it that you will be doing your bit as in buying energysaving bulbs ,switching lights off , not driving the car if you can walk it. The usual "individual stuff".There in we do the best we can .

I agree that GW is a symptom not a cause but healing often goes like this:

Ouch! shit I better get a plaster on that and ...hmm I better hadnt do that again.
Hence we have Pain/ Worry/ Stress at the event which gives us the spur to do something to attend the wound(symptom).We say 'better hadnt do that again ie..attend to the cause.
We do not ignore the symptom for it is telling us something is wrong nor do we not treat it directly.
We are only stuck in a framework of "symptomology" in the West because it fits the interests of the market.

The danger is that our belief systems seduce us subliminally in seeing everything at the Individual level. So we reduce all activity to what I can do as- an- individual.In the belief we have no collective strength we in our frustration hand it all over to divine forces of some sort. It is Gods will .

This is the problem I have with Divine plans in that they usually absolve us of responsibilityand implicitly deny our collective possibilities, and in this belief we miss windows of opportunity that are possibly open to us but we will not see (because our belief excludes them) nor will they be open forever.

I looked up your friends site Montalk and he seems to suggest we are under the domination of nonhumans working throught the illuminati( I am not saying the illuminati doesnt exist by the way ,but its all in the interpretation) . Their agenda being cosmic control of mankind. Have I got this right by the way?..I hope not!

What flows from such beliefs can only be ( in my mind) a disaster for mankind as we will have abdicated all responsibility to what.... Unseen ( but we know their there)....Reptiles!!!

Last edited: 8-05-2007 10:43:49 AM

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Hi John, nobody is abdicating responsibility to anything, least of all Montalk. However, I can see how it might appear that way to someone who's new to this area. It's a complex subject with no easy answers but I've just asked him to respond to your comment because he's a much better communicator of ideas than I am.

What I will say about Tom (Montalk) is that he's without doubt one of the most intelligent people I know. It's very easy to think that anyone who believes in aliens is 'nuts' and dismiss them. But that's just incredibly lazy thinking and shows a complete lack of awareness for all the information that's actually out there about this subject. Interestingly, Tom is probably as knowledgeable about science as he is about spirituality and cosmology, having studied both physics and electrical engineering for four years. I would suggest reading his article about Truth Analysis for an insight into how he arrives at his conclusions.

One of his latest articles shows how physics can explain the possibility of a shift The Physics of 2012

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Hi Andy

I think we're in danger here of spreading ourselves too far on this one . I think the basic thing is that GW looks like its 95% human induced as the majority of scientists seem to say. So it follows that we need to do whatever is dictated by the best synopsois we can come up with to counteract it, albeit it may be too late.However as soon as you have a child on the way or have children there really isnt any option.

Movement on this is what Im interested in and this tends to happen only when a critical mass develops.This is largely achieved by connected events happening which scares the shit out of you 'and the use of a common language to gain consensus and direction.

Anything that confuses the issue ends up sabotaging it despite every good will in the world.

Knowing the greater truth whether it be God / Aliens /Zog or whatever isnt going to help us when the essential equation that we're needing to confront is tangible and clear to see .It is Co2 and other green house gases that we( the cause) produce.
In the struggle to overcome it we will gain the clarity of what it is about ourselves we need to change (practice is primary).

All else is just a side show.

As for your friend Monk Im sure he is very intelligent and Im not saying hes mad or bad and there is probably some truth in things he says and of course for him he is not acting irresponsibly. Infact I would say he feels a reponsibility to say what he says..But truth is both relative and absolute.Its relativity is in the fact that it is expressed through humans who have a different 'Truth'. for every epoch or indeed every generation.

.There is so much' truth ' we spend most of our time arguing and fighting over it .To the point that it can often work against us.What we need is consensus and a simple grounded agenda for change. To acheive this we need to stay with in a framework of "truth" which fits for our time. One that the majority can relate to.If I put in about reptilean forces then sorry, for now Im going to do nothing but sabotage my aims. 100 years time .. who knows?

As someone once said 'Philosophers have interpreted the world in so many ways... ..the point however is to change it

Last edited: 8-05-2007 07:14:38 PM

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Well that's just a matter of awareness and perspective isn't it?

If you're unaware of higher truths, then you're also unaware of how knowing those truths can change your entire perspective about everything.

Anyway, you seem to think I'm arguing against the reality of global warming. I'm not. I just have different ideas about the real solutions.

Going green and reducing CO2 levels is not going to solve our problems. It's almost certainly far too late for that now, and if it is the only solution then we're definitely screwed. How do you propose we get China, India and all the other developing nations to make the necessary cuts? China is about to overtake the US as the biggest CO2 polluter on the planet, and they don't have any plans to cut their CO2 levels anytime soon.

Personally I'm not worried though. But I'm not sitting on my arse doing nothing either. I haven't spent the last 2 years working on Holistic Local, and other consciousness raising projects for nothing.

The only real solution is to raise conciousness because only through greater consciousness and understanding will people ever start to take seriously the issue of environmental destruction and all the other serious problems that afflict the human race. However, you can't raise consiousness by ranting and raving and saying "do this and do that, or we're all going to die!" It doesn't work like that unfortunately. And if anything it lowers consciousness because it puts people into a fearful state, and fear only paralyses us. So I recommend not buying into the fear of it all, or try to make other people fearful.

Andy

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What can we do? is another of Tom's articles that is appropriate to this discussion.

"...It is true that when one is on the right path, everything falls into place naturally. But some take this as an excuse for complacency, thinking that since all manifests at its proper time all they need to do is sit and wait. What they forget is that being on the right path is meaningless if one doesn’t move along it. Like a road with exits, the right exit will come at its proper time, but parking and waiting for that exit to arrive is a contradiction."

Last edited: 8-05-2007 07:41:09 PM

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Hi Andy

I think there is more than one road to Rome as we are all only a facet of this amazing journey.
There is a danger in achieving the opposite of what we intend due to our passion and sense of certainty in our mission ( The Trap) .This applies to me just as much as anyone ,and I speak from experience. So we have to let things go where they want to go and leave it be and if anything wish a safe journey to all.

One thing for sure, the issue of GW is stirring alot of emotion.

I can,t get a clear view on your position ,but please don't think I think your just sitting on your arse.I wouldn't have thought that for a moment. I consider you one of the good guys and I know we probably agree on a lot of things..

But take it on the chin and I say this in humor and in good faith, that some people are going to be a little phased shall we say when the wiff of reptilean forces appears rightly or wrongly into the debate....afterall I'm only human .

John

Last edited: 8-05-2007 10:59:25 PM

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I don't doubt it John. Although if you go back and actually read through everything I actually said, you'll find that I never mentioned them, nor did I ever intend to.

I've been talking about the need to raise consciousness. You were the one that kept bringing reptilians into the debate

Andy

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Hi Andy that was quick. Yes your right there..but it was what Tom Monk seemed to be hedging at as I gave it a read ...which was your link. Then when this didnt get clarified or dispelled with I thought it was central to your belief as well.....and then I sort of got fixated on it and I know I think we also then sort of passed on points of agreement...and as always occurs in these things ...words meaning 101 possibilities for interpretation

Consciousness raising for sure . I agree .

John

Last edited: 8-05-2007 11:16:22 PM

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Namaste all,

I've been following this discuss with interest as I guess I consider my perspective to be something of a combination of Trinity's, John's and Andy's. But I feel that many people would have been put off by this series of posts and the website posted.

In comparison with Joe Bloggs I think I'm pretty aware of what is suggested in this area of thought, such as the likes of the activities of the Bilderberg group, the Carlye group, Project for the New American Century, what goes on at Bohemiam Grove, even the likes of Skull and Bones and many other such things. There is good evidence for these and for the most part I can agree with a fair bit of what is proposed about them.

However, to go as far as to say that there are "Hostile “aliens” [who] are 4D and 5D dark entities" that seek "Hyperdimensional Control System", as the website suggests is a step too far for me. Going on about aliens who have a "demonic nature" and are "dark occult overlords who are supreme in their dark wisdom and knowledge. While 4D entities are rough around the edges and serve more as minions and henchmen, 5D entities are the commanders, Luciferian in nature." Or the NWO are trying to "place humanity under the leadership of a genetically engineered “master race” of alien-human hybrids." Well, what do you say to that? Apart from where is the evidence for this? Locked away with the Ark of the Covenant in that big warehouse?

I do believe there is other life out there. Just based on the mathemathics alone it makes sense. It is thought there are in the region of 50000 billion, billion stars/suns in the universe, and that is just the stars, not the planets. So the chances of life just being here on earth and nowhere else is highly unlikely. But that is not to say that they are necessarily occultist reptiles or space insects trying to rule the earth as the website suggests.

I've read a fair bit of the website since the link was first posted and much of it reads like a mash largely of new-age thought, David Icke, Alex Jones, maybe with a little sprinkling of Jordan Maxwell somewhere in there too. Not necessarily bad (and it is very well written and presented), but overall this is a website founded upon the idea that aliens are basically at the root of most of what is going on/wrong on earth. And I sincerely don't mean this is in anyway to be disrespectful Andy (I do think we have a lot of unorthodox views in common, just maybe not this one), but I think this is perhaps a poor choice of reference for this GW discussion and probably more likely to turn people away than get them involved. I know you said you didn't intend to bring this element into the discussion, but you pointed to a resource that is founded upon this perspective and it makes no bones about it through out the website. It would be like me posting an Advaitic or a Tantric website that mentions global warming and its place in the greater scheme of things. It's not that I feel they would be wrong in what they said, but just that this doesn't necessarily yet seem like the audiance or the discussion thread for it. If it was in the spirituality or alien forums, fair enough, but here it seems to have diluted this thread with fringe ideas that turn people away, probably including many of the members here who are very environmentally conscious.

I do agree that working on ourselves is the number one priority. I personally feel this is the number one priority in life. Raising your own consciousness will effect those around you and lift them too (to a greater or less degree). It alters your life and how you live it from the inside out. Tackling global warming by itself though, regardless of seeking deeper truths, will achieve something. It already has. Look at how politics and business are (albeit slowly) becoming more green. The weak attempts of tackling global warming have already produced changes in consciousness and actions. There has been something of a slight shift in the global (or at least western) consciousness. Sure it is a hundred miles from what it would have to be to be successful, but it is a first step. In my humble opinion when there are problems on this scale we have to reach down to the lowest common denominator and offer to help at that level, while at the same time doing our inner work (and the two aren't really separate anyway).

I would enjoying seeing this discussion taken forward in a bit of a different direction. What pops up from time to time in my mind are the questions:

Forums such as this are wonderful and a great learning resource, but it is largely preaching to the choir here. How much then and to what extent could the views of those in here be transplanted into wider society through individual and collective means? I'd be interested to know what others who think that the raising of consciousness and bringing about social & environmental change should go hand in hand have to say, and how to do this. Both on microscopic and macroscopic levels.

I don't have answers to many of these questions. I would like to see more organised and collective action taking place, but at present I don't know how to bring this about, despite my best musing over it. While on a personal and physical level, myself and my partner have our little plan/goal in place that we are working towards. If this comes to bear fruit we hope this could possibly be a good example and something of at least a day visit retreat for others (eventually!).

Think I have said more than enough for one night! I feel I have been relatively blunt (but hopefully polite) in this post, so Andy, John, and anyone else, please feel welcome to retort to anything I have said. In forums such as this I feel we can try to be honest and direct with each other and I'm more than happy for people to reply in like kind.

Om Shanti
Neil

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