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Member Forums  »  Environmentalism & Ecology  »  Review of the year: Global Warming Post reply
 6-01-2007 07:44:16 AM
Trinity
Trinity
From: United Kingdom

Review of the year: Global warming
By Steve Connor

Original link

It has been a hot year. The average temperature in Britain for 2006 was higher than at any time since records began in 1659. Globally, it looks set to be the sixth hottest year on record. The signs during the past 12 months have been all around us. Little winter snow in the Alpine ski resorts, continuing droughts in Africa, mountain glaciers melting faster than at any time in the past 5,000 years, disappearing Arctic sea ice, Greenland's ice sheet sliding into the sea. Oh, and a hosepipe ban in southern England...

You could be forgiven for thinking that you've heard it all before. You may think it's time to turn the page and read something else. But you'd be wrong. 2006 will be remembered by climatologists as the year in which the potential scale of global warming came into focus. And the problem can be summarised in one word: feedback.

During the past year, scientific findings emerged that made even the most doom-laden predictions about climate change seem a little on the optimistic side. And at the heart of the issue is the idea of climate feedbacks - when the effects of global warming begin to feed into the causes of global warming. Feedbacks can either make things better, or they can make things worse. The trouble is, everywhere scientists looked in 2006, they encountered feedbacks that will make things worse - a lot worse.

Next year, the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will publish its fourth assessment on the scale of the future problems facing humanity. Its last assessment, published in 2001, had little to say on the subject of climate feedbacks, partly because, at that time, they were such an unknown quantity. This year, scientists came to learn a little more about them, and they didn't like what they learnt.

During the past two decades, the IPCC has tended to regard the Earth's climate as something that will change gradually and smoothly, as carbon dioxide and global temperatures continue their lock-step rise. But there is a growing consensus among many climate scientists that this may be giving a false sense of security. They fear that feedback reactions may begin to kick in and suddenly tip the climate beyond a critical threshold from which it cannot easily recover.

Climate feedbacks could turn the Earth into a very different planet over a dramatically short period of time. It has happened in the past, scientists say, and it could easily happen in the future given the unprecedented scale of the environmental changes caused by man.

There are two types of feedback that can play a role in the future direction of the Earth's climate. The first is a "negative" feedback, which is largely good for us, because it works against things getting worse. The classic example of a negative feedback is the fertilising effect of carbon dioxide. As concentrations rise, then so does the amount of carbon absorbed by the higher growth rate of plants. The result is a negative feedback that tends to check rising levels of carbon dioxide.

A "positive" feedback makes things worse by adding to the existing problem. It brings about a vicious circle, in which a rise in carbon dioxide or global temperatures causes some change in the climate system which, in turn, leads to further rises in carbon dioxide or temperatures.

A classic example of a positive feedback is the melting sea ice of the Arctic. As temperatures rise, the ice floating on the Arctic sea melts, exposing dark ocean where once there was white ice that reflected sunlight, and heat, back into space. The newly revealed dark ocean absorbs more sunlight and heats up, causing more ice to melt, and so reinforcing the positive-feedback cycle.

But even this simple description belies the true complexity of life on Earth. In fact, there is a negative feedback at work as well with Arctic sea ice, which insulates the underlying ocean and keeps it warmer during the cold, dark northern winters. However, on balance, it is the positive feedback that dominates here, as it does in several other instances investigated by scientists in 2006.

"The main concern is that the more we look, the more positive feedbacks we find," says Olivier Boucher, a climate scientist at the Met Office. "That's not the case when it comes to negative feedbacks. There seems to be far fewer of them." The sentiment is echoed by Chris Rapley, the director of the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge: "When we look at the list of all the feedbacks in the climate, the list of positive feedbacks is worryingly long - a lot longer than the negative feedbacks. To be honest, it's a wonder that the climate has remained so stable."

Let's stick with Arctic sea ice a bit longer before looking at other issues that emerged 2006. In March, Nasa satellites monitored a 28-year record low for winter sea ice. Normally sea ice recovers during the long Arctic winter, but this was the second consecutive year that the ice failed to re-form fully to is previous winter extent.

This meant there was less ice at the start of the northern summer, with the result that last September saw the second monthly minimum for summer sea ice - almost hitting the record minimum set in September 2005.

During the past four or five years, there has been an acceleration in the rate at which sea ice is melting, a change that some scientists put down to a positive feedback. "Our hypothesis is that we've reached the tipping point," says Ron Lindsay of the University of Washington in Seattle. "For sea ice, the positive feedback is that increased summer melt means decreased winter growth and then even more melting the next summer, and so on."

Professor Lindsay likens the positive feedback in the Arctic to a ball that has begun to roll down a slope, gathering momentum and speed as it goes. In order to reverse the direction of movement, the ball has to be pushed back up the slope. But how? "Perhaps a cooling period could reverse the situation," he says. "But with global warming, temperatures are only bound to rise."

While we are in the northern hemisphere, take a look at another positive feedback that scientists investigated in 2006. This is connected to the frozen permafrost of Siberia and northern Canada, which lock up vast stores of carbon in the form of methane, a gas formed by the decomposition of organic matter. For more than 12,000 years, this methane - a greenhouse gas 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide - has been safely stored under the permanently frozen ground. But now the permafrost is melting and the gas is bubbling free into the atmosphere.

Sergei Kirpotin, a botanist at Tomsk State University in Russia, has been studying the extent of the melting permafrost of Western Siberia, the site of the world's biggest frozen peat bog. During the past few years, he has watched lakes getting bigger and bigger as the solid permafrost underneath liquifies.

Normally, patches on white lichen on high Siberian ground reflect the sun's rays and help to keep the ground underneath cold. But as the dark lakes expand, more heat is absorbed and more permafrost melts. "As we predicted in the early 1990s, there's a critical barrier," says Professor Kirpotin. "Once global warming pushes the melting process past that line, it begins to perpetuate itself."

The once-frozen peat bogs of Siberia - bigger than France and Germany combined - began to "boil" furiously in the summer of 2006 as methane bubbled to the surface. Exactly how much is being released into the atmosphere is unknown, although some estimates put it as high as 100,000 tons a day - which means a warming effect greater than America's man-made emissions of carbon dioxide.

But Katey Walter of the University of Alaska believes even this could be seriously underestimated. In a study published in Nature in September, Walter and her colleagues calculated that the level of methane emissions from Siberia could be anywhere between 10 per cent and 63 per cent higher than anyone had hitherto suspected. "We have shown that the North Siberian lakes are a significantly larger source of atmospheric methane than previously recognised," she says.

So the message is clear: frozen peat bogs that turn into heat-absorbing lakes release methane, which means a stronger greenhouse effect and higher temperatures, leading to more permafrost melting. The cycle was clearly documented in 2006 but just how strong this positive feedback turns out to be has yet to be fully determined.

Another study in 2006 looked at perhaps the most important climate feedback there is. Yet it went unreported - so listen up. The Earth has been a very accommodating planet. During the past 200 years, it has absorbed more than half of all man-made emissions of carbon dioxide through natural carbon "sinks", mostly in the ocean but also on land. The rest of the emissions have been left in the air to aggravate the Earth's natural greenhouse effect, so raising global average temperatures.

But what if something were to interfere with these very useful carbon "sinks"? Can we forever rely on them to remain sinks, or could they turn into dangerous sources of atmospheric carbon? A huge international team of climatologists asked these questions in a little-known study published in the July issue of the Journal of Climate. The conclusion makes depressing reading.

The scientists investigated what would happen if they tinkered with 11 of the world's biggest computer models of the complex climate-carbon cycle. They wanted to simulate what would happen to the carbon sinks on the land and the ocean for each model as the world gets warmer. All the models agreed that as the world heated up, the ability of the land and the oceans to keep on absorbing carbon as efficiently as they have in the past 200 years gets appreciably worse.

In other words, we cannot rely on planet Earth to be so accommodating in terms of mopping up half of our carbon pollution. But could something even worse happen? Could these carbon sinks turn into carbon sources? The answer is yes. Many models suggest that the terrestrial biosphere could become a net carbon producer by the mid 21st century. Signs are that it is already happening in some parts of the world.

Guy Kirk of the National Soil Resources Institute at Cranfield University found that the soil of Britain is releasing more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than a quarter of a century ago because increasing temperatures are speeding up the rate of organic decay. "It's a feedback loop," says Professor Kirk. "The warmer it gets, the faster it is happening." In fact, he estimates that since 1978, Britain's soil has released on average an extra 13 million tons of carbon dioxide a year, which is more than the 12.7 million tons a year Britain saved by cleaning up its industrial emissions.

The outlook does not look any better out at sea. The important carbon sinks of the ocean are also suffering from feedback. As more carbon dioxide dissolves in seawater to form carbonic acid, the acidity of the ocean increases - the rate is 100 times faster than at any time for millions of years.

There is a physical feedback - it is just harder for more carbon dioxide to dissolve in acid water - as well as a biological feedback. Tiny organisms called coccolithophores use dissolved carbon to make their shells, but acidic seas make this more difficult. This blocks an important biological pump that pushes carbon to a long-term store on the seabed - which is what happens when billions of tiny shells sink to the depths as coccolithophores die.

Yet another ocean feedback was monitored in 2006, this time involving phytoplankton, the tiny microscopic plants of the sea that form the basis of the entire marine food chain. Nasa satellites showed earlier this month that phytoplankton - which absorb carbon dioxide - are finding it harder to live in the more stratified layers of the warmer ocean, which restrict the mixing of vital nutrients. Since 2000, when the sea surface temperatures began to rise more noticeably, the photosynthetic productivity of phytoplankton have decreased in some ocean regions by 30 per cent.

"As climate warms, phytoplankton production goes down, but this also means that carbon dioxide uptake by ocean plants will decrease," says Michael Behrenfeld of Oregon State University. "That would allow carbon dioxide to accumulate more rapidly in the atmosphere, making the problem worse." Some climate scientists believe that the risk of dangerous feedbacks tipping the Earth's climate system beyond a threshold is so great that there should be wider recognition of what they term "abrupt changes". The point is, they say, it has happened repeatedly in the past. It happened 55 million years ago when a trillion tons of methane were suddenly and mysteriously released from frozen stores on the seabed, causing global temperatures to soar 10C, and a mass extinction of species.

It happened 14,500 years ago when ice sheets catastrophically collapsed into the ocean causing sea levels to rise by 20 metres in just 400 years. And it happened 6,500 years ago when the Sahara was suddenly turned from lush vegetation to dry desert.

Scientists say that what is happening now to the planet in terms of carbon dioxide levels and global temperatures is just as abrupt as anything that has occurred in the past. "What we are doing now to the Earth is unprecedented," says Professor Rapley of the British Antarctic Survey, "so we cannot rule out the possibility that we are doing something that will create a strong positive feedback, which will push the Earth into a domain where things will happen that have never happened before."

It is a sobering thought as 2006 draws to a close, and one that must be in the minds of all the IPCC scientists preparing next year's Fourth Assessment Report on climate change.

A VISION OF THE FUTUREOriginal link

The single most momentous environmental image of 2006 was a holiday snap. Of sorts. It showed typical European package tourists on a nice sandy beach in Tenerife. Until a few minutes before the picture was taken, on August 3 on Tejita beach in Granadilla, it had been a day of utter normality for these tourists. Then something very different erupted on to the scene.

From the sea came a boat. Out of it fell pitiful figures - exhausted, terrified, dehydrated, starving. They were African migrants who, out of desperation, had risked the long voyage from the African coast to the Canaries; for the Canaries are part of Europe, a place of hope and opportunity. What did the tourists do? They did the decent thing. They rushed to the aid of fellow men and women.

But will they offer such a welcome when the boat people are not just a boatload, but a whole country- or region-load? For that is coming. As climate change takes hold this century, agriculture may fail in some of the poorest and most densely populated parts of the world.

Sir Crispin Tickell, Britain's former Ambassador to the UN, who is one of the most far-sighted of environmental commentators, pointed out as long ago as 1990 that global warming is likely to create environmental refugees in the hundreds of millions. We have paid little attention to his warning.

But if you look at the picture taken on Tejita beach, you can see something even more dramatic than the fact that the ordinary European holidaymaker has a lifestyle most Africans can only dream of. You can see the future, starting to happen.

Published: 29 December 2006

Last edited: 6-01-2007 07:45:03 AM

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 6-01-2007 02:58:12 PM
John
John
From: United Kingdom

Oops ...me again.

good one Trinity ....Id hate to think you wrote it all out yourself.....good thing this cut and paste.....should of had it when I was at Uni.

Well what can I say you,ve said it all....Some of us have known this was coming for a long while .Consciousness always lags behind reality ...so events are always more complex than you can grasp at anyone time.As the old phrase goes ...and I seem to be saying it alot these days....

' You may not know the Dialectic ..but the Dialectic knows you'.

The trouble with dialectical movement is ..it happens to take on a certain pattern of transformation ...whereby small changes speed up and magnify ..and then before you know it you have a quantative change into a qualitive change..This is precisely the change pattern that is taking place in regards humans and global warming.

Alot of this has been predicted for a long long time as it comes out of the unfolding and maturing of Capitalist society.The Planet has never had a civilisation on its back like it! CO2 is a buy product of its productive forces that have not been balanced by other needs .Profit is King.

We are in effect the victim of the free market in ways that we are on the whole not aware . We have a cultural disconnection on this subject. The capitalist ethos and ideology has been so pervasive( because of its 'success') that we can 't see the wood for the trees....We cannot see the negative in the positive....Now all is coming home to roost... 'Big Style '!

I saw Al Gores movie An Inconvenient Truth the other day...I think it should be shown in schools as part of the curriculum.

Also have a look at my post in 'Phytoplankton and Global Warming ' theres some interesting links.

One other I ll give you ( this a great site I've just found) is an online video link at: TEDTalks:Al Gore where Al Gore does an update and where there is one of Bjorn Lomborg of 'The Sceptical Environmentalist' fame( TEDTalks:Bjorn Lomborg ) the 'nutter' from Scandinavia...an economist no less...suprise suprise....( such drivel I have not heard from a supposedly intelligent man for a long time)!...The logic of his position is incredulous when you strip it down.

(Theres also a lot of online short videos of ...how to market ...and how to be a success)..........should interest some .

Last edited: 6-01-2007 07:26:18 PM

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 7-01-2007 10:51:58 AM
Trinity
Trinity
From: United Kingdom

Hi John!

Thanks for those.... will check out your links.

I see the snowball effect... out of control! I am amazed to still see such ignorance about the most basic concerns, let alone the major issues.

Love
Trinity

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 7-01-2007 11:50:58 AM
John
John
From: United Kingdom

Have you noticed Trinity how this subject is a very good conversation killer !?


....George Monbiots book Heat' How to stop the Planet Burning ' is a good read.

Also if you need a car.....get a diesel and shove 40% vegetable oil straight in the tank ...without doing anything to it. Use old used veg oil... if you let it settle and filter it. its apparently fine .I have a friend who does this and he has no problems .Everyone should do this if they have a diesel.

Bio diesel is however not a longterm solution to the problem as to do it on a big scale will herald the end of the rainforest quicker than you can say 'go'. as some countries are now looking to replant it with palm oil for the bio diesel market on a HUGE scale.


Johnx

Last edited: 7-01-2007 12:06:11 PM

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 8-01-2007 10:13:58 AM
Trinity
Trinity
From: United Kingdom

Hi John,

Yes, how interesting that something so important (imo) leads to much silence, when other things spark off much chatter indeed. This seems to be the case with many issues that expose the less than 'desirable' facts about what is going on, that indicate some kind of dramatic change to way of life is required.

OK. I bought a small peugeot diesel recently so that I could put veg oil in it. We have spent certain periods without a vehicle, but in order to do the work we do (and take my son to home schooling (often remote) activities), we have found it necessary at the moment. I'd been in two minds about it, after also realising that it wasn't a long term solution, and may infact encourage further damage to the environment. But alas, it seems for now, it may be the lesser of two evils (so to speak ;))... I am really interested to find out all I can about putting oil in immediately without going through the conversion process. What is it that you actually use? Any useful links?????

Can't wait to hear more.

Trinity
xxx

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 8-01-2007 10:53:12 AM
John
John
From: United Kingdom

Hi Trinity

Well its not me who actually does it...but I have a friend who does .I'm also thinking of doing it but there is the problem of paying the duty which is a faf to say the least .

What he does is he gets used vegetable oil from a couple of cafes and empties the the top part of the oil into a plastic 45 gallon barrel( the one with a lid).Hes careful not to put the cruddy stuff in that starts to appear as a whitish sludge.He lets it settle until clear perhaps a few days to a week ....but just use your eye to judge .Then he uses a plastic jug to scoop out the good stuff and puts it into another barrel via a large filter that is lined with an old stocking to get any fine particles out. then he just puts it in the tank .You can mix it with12% kerosene as well if you want to put more than 60% in your tank.

He doesnt have any problems .The winter can be a problem time for letting the oil settle out as the cold seems to drive the moisture back into the oil.
Other than that its fine .

The cars fuel filter will deal with any small particles but diesels dont like water so be careful to put in only clear stuff....suck it and see . You will have to change the filter perhaps twice a year instead of once .

You will in time have the sludgy bottom bit to get rid of ,but as vegetable oil I think you could probably compost it in some way...allowing bacteria to break it down.Thats what he does.

John x

Last edited: 8-01-2007 11:04:29 AM

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 8-01-2007 11:34:00 AM
sarah
sarah
From: United Kingdom

Hi
Thanks for this post. It is something that has been happening and that too few have accepted. Everyone has seen the difference this winter and it is time now to show people how they can make changes, even small changes. Is anyone a member of a local environmental group? One where you meet with your neighbours to reduce waste, or environmental impact - it is something I read about a while ago. If anyone is please post and tell us about it - how it came about, how successful it can be, what pitfalls to be aware of, I am interested in setting something up in my area in 2007 any one else?
Sarah

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 9-01-2007 08:46:39 AM
Trinity
Trinity
From: United Kingdom

Thanks John! You are a star :)

Hi Sarah, There was a local group where I lived before in East Sussex, although here in Somerset, I haven't heard that too much is going on. It often takes a group of a few concerned people to set such schemes up. Have you contacted your local council? Depending on where you are located they can be sometimes supportive and helpful in that regard, or they can sometimes point you in the right direction...

Do let us know if you have any success, or useful info to share.

Love
Trinity

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 9-01-2007 11:03:12 PM
John
John
From: United Kingdom

Hi Sarah and Trinity

......just been trawling UTube and theres loads of really good stuff .

great to see so much imagination and positivity goiing on ....A must see is

'Blue Moon Group.Stop Global Warming' really well done and so simple in its approach and message. http://youtube.com/watch?v=ALBY7DLHwv0

'Global Warming Point of no return' is a bit scarey but the music is just amazing and really conveys the emotions I feel. http://youtube.com/watch?v=7FVZSUsT-Ws

Theres loads... really informative and makes you feel that alot of Americans are taking this serious.

Im going to Email some of these to All.

On the personnal level ..if you have any halogen bulbs start to get rid ....but the good news is that for alot of the same fittings you can now get cluster bulbs of LED s, these are so much more eco friendly and will last longer.

Also I do a design for a biofuel stove that uses veggie oil and a little kerosene( which you can get as from a none fossil fuel source)...if you,ve got a stove already its quite an easy adaptation....if anyone you know wants to give it a try just let me know.

Last edited: 9-01-2007 11:22:58 PM

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 10-01-2007 01:51:52 AM
John
John
From: United Kingdom

get this one ...kind of all round thingy....

Hope Visions of Whitefeather http://youtube.com/watch?v=lVSmLpNK45Q&mode=related&search=

This is a good one as well from George Monbiot...this guy is SO good!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lrU75OS0sGU

and another... http://youtube.com/watch?v=KXxkB-9Du-U&mode=related&search=

and this one is a MUST http://youtube.com/watch?v=at0T7Fi5l_I&mode=related&search= its the one about Exxon

George for PM !!!!!!!

Last edited: 10-01-2007 02:42:24 AM

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 10-01-2007 05:18:48 PM
Jon
Jon
From: New Zealand

Here is a different view:


COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING


MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate.

FACT: Accurate satellite, balloon and mountain top observations made over the last three decades have not shown any significant change in the long term rate of increase in global temperatures. Average ground station readings do show a mild warming of 0.6 to 0.8Cover the last 100 years, which is well within the natural variations recorded in the last millennium. The ground station network suffers from an uneven distribution across the globe; the stations are preferentially located in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat islands"), which show substantially higher readings than adjacent rural areas ("land use effects").

There has been no catastrophic warming recorded.


MYTH 2: The "hockey stick" graph proves that the earth has experienced a steady, very gradual temperature increase for 1000 years, then recently began a sudden increase.

FACT: Significant changes in climate have continually occurred throughout geologic time. For instance, the Medieval Warm Period, from around 1000 to1200 AD (when the Vikings farmed on Greenland) was followed by a period known as the Little Ice Age. Since the end of the 17th Century the "average global temperature" has been rising at the low steady rate mentioned above; although from 1940 – 1970 temperatures actually dropped, leading to a Global Cooling scare.

The "hockey stick", a poster boy of both the UN's IPCC and Canada's Environment Department, ignores historical recorded climatic swings, and has now also been proven to be flawed and statistically unreliable as well. It is a computer construct and a faulty one at that.


MYTH 3: Human produced carbon dioxide has increased over the last 100 years, adding to the Greenhouse effect, thus warming the earth.

FACT: Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons, human and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since the beginning of the industrial revolution the CO2 content of the atmosphere has increased from a rate of about 0.2% per year to the present 0.4% per year. But there is no proof that CO2 is the main driver of global warming. As measured in ice cores dated over many thousands of years, CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the temperature has done so, and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of warming. Geological field work in recent sediments confirms this causal relationship. There is solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and down naturally and cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and galactic influences, the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans expel more CO2 as a result.


MYTH 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas.
FACT: Greenhouse gases form about 3 % of the atmosphere by volume. They consist of varying amounts, (about 97%) of water vapour and clouds, with the remainder being gases like CO2, CH4, Ozone and N2O, of which carbon dioxide is the largest amount. Hence, CO2 constitutes about 0.037% of the atmosphere. While the minor gases are more effective as "greenhouse agents" than water vapour and clouds, the latter are overwhelming the effect by their sheer volume and – in the end – are thought to be responsible for 60% of the "Greenhouse effect".

Those attributing climate change to CO2 rarely mention this important fact.


MYTH 5: Computer models verify that CO2 increases will cause significant global warming.

FACT: Computer models can be made to "verify" anything by changing some of the 5 million input parameters or any of a multitude of negative and positive feedbacks in the program used.. They do not "prove" anything. Also, computer models predicting global warming are incapable of properly including the effects of the sun, cosmic rays and the clouds. The sun is a major cause of temperature variation on the earth surface as its received radiation changes all the time, This happens largely in cyclical fashion. The number and the lengths in time of sunspots can be correlated very closely with average temperatures on earth, e.g. the Little Ice Age and the Medieval Warm Period. Varying intensity of solar heat radiation affects the surface temperature of the oceans and the currents. Warmer ocean water expels gases, some of which are CO2. Solar radiation interferes with the cosmic ray flux, thus influencing the amount ionized nuclei which control cloud cover.

MYTH 6: The UN proved that man–made CO2 causes global warming.

FACT: In a 1996 report by the UN on global warming, two statements were deleted from the final draft. Here they are:
1) “None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse gases.”
2) “No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the climate change to man–made causes”

To the present day there is still no scientific proof that man-made CO2 causes significant global warming.


MYTH 7: CO2 is a pollutant.
FACT: This is absolutely not true. Nitrogen forms 80% of our atmosphere. We could not live in 100% nitrogen either. Carbon dioxide is no more a pollutant than nitrogen is. CO2 is essential to life on earth. It is necessary for plant growth since increased CO2 intake as a result of increased atmospheric concentration causes many trees and other plants to grow more vigorously. Unfortunately, the Canadian Government has included CO2 with a number of truly toxic and noxious substances listed by the Environmental Protection Act, only as their means to politically control it.


MYTH 8: Global warming will cause more storms and other weather extremes.

FACT: There is no scientific or statistical evidence whatsoever that supports such claims on a global scale. Regional variations may occur. Growing insurance and infrastructure repair costs, particularly in coastal areas, are sometimes claimed to be the result of increasing frequency and severity of storms, whereas in reality they are a function of increasing population density, escalating development value, and ever more media reporting.


MYTH 9: Receding glaciers and the calving of ice shelves are proof of global warming.

FACT: Glaciers have been receding and growing cyclically for hundreds of years. Recent glacier melting is a consequence of coming out of the very cool period of the Little Ice Age. Ice shelves have been breaking off for centuries. Scientists know of at least 33 periods of glaciers growing and then retreating. It’s normal. Besides, glacier's health is dependent as much on precipitation as on temperature.


MYTH 10: The earth’s poles are warming; polar ice caps are breaking up and melting and the sea level rising.

FACT: The earth is variable. The western Arctic may be getting somewhat warmer, due to unrelated cyclic events in the Pacific Ocean, but the Eastern Arctic and Greenland are getting colder. The small Palmer Peninsula of Antarctica is getting warmer, while the main Antarctic continent is actually cooling. Ice thicknesses are increasing both on Greenland and in Antarctica.

Sea level monitoring in the Pacific (Tuvalu) and Indian Oceans (Maldives) has shown no sign of any sea level rise. weblink:www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=4

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 10-01-2007 06:11:03 PM
Trinity
Trinity
From: United Kingdom

AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH MOVIE PREVIEW

Another view point. I would recommend that anyone check out the "An Inconvenient Truth" Al Gore movie.

Scientific facts aside, it looks to me like something has gone seriously awry with this planet. I don't know if I'd want to be on your boat when the ship sinks Jon

Trinity
xxx

Last edited: 10-01-2007 06:13:51 PM

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 10-01-2007 07:01:05 PM
John
John
From: United Kingdom

Hi Jon ...

did you write that all out yourself ..or is it a cut and paste job...if so I'd like to know the site .

Id love to think this view was right believe me ......however my instinct tells me something is going on ..we can't be this gigantic sprawl and have no effect.

Scientists can squabble as much as they like ...and Indeed thats good but your still left with a choice ...just like ....do I go with the Doctor and take a pill ..or do I change my lifestyle and exercise more.

The bottom line is Russian roulette.......not much of a choice me thinks....;)

Last edited: 10-01-2007 07:04:49 PM

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 10-01-2007 07:37:07 PM
John
John
From: United Kingdom

Just seen the link now...

'Friends of science ' .....seemingly according to George Monbiot and others their one of the' cabal ' ( ooh I do like that word) I spoke about earlier.They are funded partly by R Reynolds...better known as Big Tobbacco and have quite an interesting history:

Take a look at: http://www.desmogblog.com/friends-of-science-friends-of-tobacco ...and its links

Take a look at: http://youtube.com/watch?v=0kSN_r3bYys

and http://youtube.com/watch?v=at0T7Fi5l_I&mode=related&search=

Last edited: 10-01-2007 07:46:05 PM

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 11-01-2007 08:30:31 AM
Trinity
Trinity
From: United Kingdom

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place, we are entering a period of consequences.”
Winston Churchill

I am also inclined to agree with John...

Even if we look at the signs around us, there are radical changes happening. Perhaps they are not so obvious for people who are really connected with nature? I spend a great deal of time outdoors, and in the UK alone, my simple observations show that there are countless ecological considerations completely out of synch.

Trinity
x

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 11-01-2007 08:48:38 AM
Jon
Jon
From: New Zealand

Trinity, I didn't say this was my view, why would you think it was?
I posted this as an adjunct to what has been written before on this thread, Don't shoot the messanger). I was interested in the reactions to what has been written, because, there are always 2 sides to every story. I am not in a postition to judge, one way or the other. Pity you took this as MY view.

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 11-01-2007 09:02:24 AM
Trinity
Trinity
From: United Kingdom

In my experience, there are multiple sides to the story, most of which (if not all) are laden with distortions.

I did notice that you didn't say it was 'your' view Jon. Although, it in posting it, you do offer the view point your support. It is usually pressumed that if we offer something, it correlates with our own perspective.

I didn't even mention you in the post. Can't quite see, how you deduce that I took it as YOUR point of view?

Trinity
x

Last edited: 11-01-2007 09:05:41 AM

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 11-01-2007 11:34:31 AM
John
John
From: United Kingdom

Had a feeling you were playing ..Devils Advocate Jon...considering the other
posts recently on 'being aware of opposites.......and I noticed you didnt say my view.

As Trinity says though .....generally we state the view we are drawn to ....so I think she can be forgiven.

Perhaps I should ask what your view is Jon ...as I'd be interested to know.
This afterall is possibly the biggest most important single issue

Is it just change thats going to settle down or is it going to turn into another ball game altogether?

Its BIG Energy stuff if ever there was .....and will play with peoples heads in more ways than they know....especially if their taxes start going up.....

Its certainly playing with mine ....the.weather has changed here in the last few years and has played havoc with me being able to finish my boat!
At the moment we are getting gale after gale ....apparently because of El Nino....warmer Pacific air hitting cooler air in the Atlantic.(something like that).;)

Last edited: 11-01-2007 12:58:31 PM

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 12-01-2007 03:16:53 PM
Jon
Jon
From: New Zealand

Trinity, you wrote: I don't know if I'd want to be on your boat when the ship sinks Jon

I said at the start of the thread, Here's another view. I did not say Here's MY view.

I have noticed that this whole Global Warming thing is becoming an 'Hot Potatoe'.
Both sides of the divide are questioning the credibility and independence of the other. I belong to another forum, where the debate took the total opposite view, and have denounced Gore as a lacky for someone or other, with the same vehmence as his protaganists denounce the opposite view.
John, to answer your question, what is my view> Well, I am in limbo, I read both sides and I can't decide. So, I guess, I'm sitting on the fence at the moment, which is not a position I'm used to. My problem at the moment is I can agree with both sides.

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 12-01-2007 03:45:40 PM
John
John
From: United Kingdom

Hi Jon
I can understand how you feel .It can be very confusing .

The only way I have been able to decide is by looking at the way the debate has been put across and the internal logic of the arguments . The opposers seem to have such an enormous credibility problem as far as I can see,they are so riddled with vested interest.
The other thing is that I see the weather changing . There is so much going on here with animals not hibernating and now starving...as well as more freak weather patterns.

The bottom line though is as I ve said ....do we play Russian roulette or dont we?
Can we afford to hedge our bets on this one.?

Believe me I hate this one as it threatens to interupt my lifestyle even more ....and all said and done I know who will pay for it most ....us ...the little people.

By the way just thought I'd let you know.....David beckham has just got $1000'000 a week ( £70'000 a day) for 5 years by the way.................. oh Yippee!....Im really pleased for him..........now I know all will be well in the world..........its that market forces thing again.

How much is that for each breath he takes?..........anyone ?.........:)

PS whats the forum called..... I d be interested to have a look at what they're saying

Last edited: 12-01-2007 06:15:32 PM

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